Timothy McVeigh Executed

A reminder that we are not marching towards a blissful and peaceful future: The U.S. executed Timothy McVeigh today.

What do you think of that?

 

47 thoughts on “Timothy McVeigh Executed

  1. It is much cheaper to execute somebody than it is to keep them under lock and key for the rest of thier years. Chalk one up for effeciency.

    I haven’t decided if ‘rehabilitation’ is a buzzword or if it’s possible (I think it totally depends on the case), but there must be another alternative that nobody’s thinking of.

    I think he was given the easy way out.

    Also, as much as people say he was a monster, there is obviously some monster in all the people who wanted to watch the execution and have it videotaped. I find that disgusting. Isn’t it enough that they know he’s dead?

    Maybe I don’t understand because I’ve never lost family in a terrorist act.

  2. This really hit home with me this morning. Here’s why…

    This weekend, a co-worker loaned me his CD-ROM of wild ‘n’ wacky pics and movies. So for the most part it’s the typical array of funny stuff, wild porn and some nasty footage of skateboarders breaking their arms.

    Then I open a movie in which a battered young woman, strapped in a chair and pleading for her life, gets shot in the forehead. It was the worst thing I have ever seen in my life.

    Part of me wishes the execution was public. I don’t think anyone seeing it could think it’s any sort of resolution.

    Anyone else stumble onto horrifying stuff online?

  3. Uhhgg. Man, I saw a website a few years ago that had stuff like “Coroner’s Cuts” and stuff. I didn’t stick around for too long. I think I would be traumatized if I had seen that video Kirby.

  4. I know the internet shouldn’t be censored, but, after a few horrible close calls of seeing such a thing (or seeing it, then closing right away before the image burns in too deeply) I tend to wish there was a little. I guess we have to take the bad with the good.

  5. The only thing to be gained from seeing such a thing is an appreciation for how horrific violence really is, and how perverse our standards of indecency are (mass murder is okay for popular entertainment, just don’t show us a blowjob fer chrissakes).

    But if you already know that (like I did), it’s just something to try to forget.

  6. The fact that shit like what Kirby saw is available on the internet is not what we should be worried about. It’s the fact that this shit happens.

    There are some fucked up people in this fucked up world, but let’s face it, we live in a voyeuristic society in which we love to see the most horrible acts play out before us. For years, cable news has been showing us images of plane crashes, car crashes, terrorist bombings, school shootings, and we all sit there, mesmerised.

    And then we forget about it.

    I’m willing to bet that Kirby has seen someone else get his head blown off before. Remember the Zapruder film? Remember Kennedy? Now you do.

    After seeing things like that, we all get traumatised for life. And then it goes away.

    We should all be mad as hell that Timothy McVeigh was killed today.

    Jeff Coll

  7. Interesting points folks. Disturbing about that girl in the chair… was it real or acting? (when you say movie, I’m not sure if I’m supposed to think Hollywood or some tech protocol…)

    I think it is possible to be against the death penalty yet not find fundamental flaw with the execution of McVeigh. I think that cuz, at least for now, that’s what I think.

    He saw himself as a soldier and his death as the sacrifice all soldiers are (at least partially) willing to make. It seems, according to some reports of those close to him in the past few days, that he felt sadness at the individual deaths (something like a fighter pilot who drops a bomb on Baghdad) but felt no remorse whatsoever.

    If it was left to me (personally) I would not execute; I think living his entire life behind bars would be a much greater punishment and would avoid advancing his cause through martyrdom.

    Even so, I have absolutely no moral grounds upon which to object to his execution other than the sanctity of life itself which, whether we like to admit it or not, varies considerably with convenience.

  8. Kirby, I’m sorry you had to see that. Even just hearing about that kind of thing second hand, it sticks with me. I’m pretty careful about that kind of thing. I’m easily disturbed (a good thing, I think). I can not watch those skateboarding videos at all.

    We used to do our hangings in public. Why not our lethal injections?

    Rob, you say it’s cheaper to execute. From what I understand, this is not true. It’s far more expensive than (see my unreliable source).

    Rob also hits on the interesting point that he can’t understand as he is not a victim in this case. I would argue that this puts you at an advantage, not a disadvantage. The fate of criminals should not be determined by (understandably) angry and vengful victims. Rather, their fate should be determined by (supposedly) level-headed law makers.

  9. I think Kevin made a great point. (As well as Steve). I believe we have to raise above the primitive ‘eye for an eye’ , yet there should be harsh punishment for terrible crimes that happen. I for one am glad we live in a country that doesn’t exercise the death penalty. I also have no stomach for ‘realife ‘ violence. I saw this ‘Fifth Estate’ episode not long ago about Snuff Films(is that the right term). Extremely disturbing and images that stick to you. I think awareness is important about these subjects, but I really didn’t need to see it (I had to turn it off…)

  10. I’m almost certain the video was real, Kevin, though there’s no way of knowing for sure. (I say “movie” just meaning it was an MPEG file.)

    One more point: perhaps executions should be uglier. Isn’t something like a lethal injection just a way to make it all more palatable? The guillotine is probably just as humane, and it’s honest about what it does.

    Just a reminder that we are all Canadian (aren’t we?) — we don’t kill our criminals.

  11. I watch disturbing video’s everyday, mostly forwarded on from my co-workers. Do I enjoy watching them? No. Mostly I view them out of curiosity, I can’t live with missing a once in a lifetime event. I like the fact that I’m numbing myself to the sensation, slightly preparing myself for actually dealing with the situation if I’m ever faced with it. I see being shocked or disturbed by someone’s actions as a weakness. If I can numb out as many disturbing situations as I can now, I’d be more likely to deal with them better in the future. Ask a Police officer, EMS worker or doctor how disturbing some of these video’s are. I don’t plan on being an EMS worker, but if I saw someone with his guts spilling out of his stomach, I’d be less likely to be disturbed and panic and more likely to shake it off and help him out. I don’t know, it’s just a personal opinion and I know I’m in a small percentage of the population that agrees with it.

    As for the MPEG in question, it sounds like a fake I’ve seen a while back. Does she say “snuff films do not exist” before he fires? If so, I know for a fact that it’s a fake, years ago I had the URL of the page of which it originated. Actually very few of the Stuff films you see on the net are actually real, and if they are you’d probably be able to find some news about it on the net.

    Slightly related: Back in ’99 the movie theater I worked at (Empire Theaters in Charlottetown) opened the movie 8mm featuring Nicolas Cage. The movie is mostly about Stuff films and was rated ‘R’ with disturbing scenes. When we got the fax in the office with the movie ratings, my manager misread the ‘R’ as an ‘A’ and opened the movie for people 14 years of age and older. Did we ever get in shit for that, they actually had someone in the ratings board come in the next day and threaten to sue. Since I thought the movie was rated ‘A’ I assumed that it wasn’t too bad and actually took a date the next night. FYI, snuff films do not impress your date.

  12. Desensitizing is a good idea in that respect, Vince. I totally respect that, but still don’t think I could do it. I’m horribly un-desensitized (… double negative, I’m sentsitized?) and that’s always causing me problems. Maybe if I had watched more violent TV and tortured frogs and squirrels as a child, this wouldn’t be a problem.

    Ideally, as a profession, I would like to do something in the medical field. Not a surgeon or doctor, but like an occupational therapist, physiotherapist, or even a radiologist. But the thought of dissecting cadavers as part of my training totally turns me off that. All my friends who are in that field say it’s nothing once you get used to it. Which I guess is true, but that first step is the hardest one I guess.

    I mean, the thought of seeing your own small intestine every day could be considered gross. But, as a new ostomate, I see mine every day and I’m cool with it, but it took me a good week or so before I could actually clean it and stuff, now it’s totally normal. Maybe I just have to edge my way up to full blown gore and then it’ll be alright.

  13. i wonder if he could have done what he did if he hadn’t already some experience (as a soldier fighting in gulf war, i mean)- de-sensitization seems dangerous. not to condone what he did in ANY WAY, but it’s strange for the same organization to train and honor a man for killing certain people while punishing him in (arguably) the harshest way for killing others.
    universal pacifism may be an incredibly naive idea, but i don’t think it’s good to be desensitized.
    just with the stuff that’s available for us to read in our morning paper, we should all be weeping in our cheerios.

  14. I don’t agree with the death penalty flat out. Killing the criminal brings yourself down to his level (ever see Se7en?).Killing may be acceptable in self-defense, but then again I’ve never had my family killed by some Gulf War vet. I don’t really have any reasons to back my opinion up it’s just my morals I guess. Everyone has their own morals, which Timothy McVeigh demonstrated years ago. He fully believed that he was doing the right thing, and maintained his opinion for the rest of his shortened life. There’s no right or wrong answer in this type of conversation, just a clash of opinions. Who is to say that what Timothy McVeigh did was wrong? Fact is that events like this are judged right or wrong on an individual basis. I guarantee that are people who believe that Mr. McVeigh was fully justified in bombing that building (myself not included).

    As far as being desensitized, it’s just my opinion really. It’s not for everyone.

  15. Just a related note to help some people sleep tonight:

    The video Kirby was talking about earlier is in fact a fake. I remember it from a movie magic company site I was forwarded during my online support days.

    Still very upsetting, not suggested for the meek.

    NOTE: The link to the video in question was removed at Vince’s request. Email him if you really want to see it – Steven

  16. It’s real:
    “Then I open a movie in which a battered young woman, strapped in a chair and pleading for her life, gets shot in the forehead. It was the worst thing I have ever seen in my life.”

    It’s not real:
    “That woman is great!”

    What the fuck is wrong with you? Because it’s only pretending to be a snuff movie, it’s cool? Or is that an extremely poor attempt at humour?

  17. Bring back the <sarcasm> tag. In Kirby’s case, I believe he meant:

    <sarcasm type=”heavy”>”That woman is great!”</sarcasm>

  18. Actually, I thought she was completely convincing! She was what made me think it was real.

    Calm down, Yada(?). I didn’t say it was cool, I’m just saying I bought her performance — she totally fooled me. Relax.

    And nobody else in here is anonymous — why you? If you’re gonna get belligerent, don’t hide.

  19. Everyone in here is anonymous, unless you all know each other outside of AOV. If I entered my name as Burt MacDonald and my address as bmacd@yahoo.com I am still completely anonymous.

  20. Vince,
    The whole numbing yourself to life’s gross stuff seems a little weird to me (Don’t get me wrong, I like watching cops as much as the next guy). EMS, Police, and Doctors all are “numbed” in their real lives, NOT by a screen. A EMS worker holding someone’s guts in while the ambulance races for the hospital doesn’t choose to do so. I bet you they wish they just drove around all day putting bandaids on kid’s knees. They deal with real people’s guts. They know their names. The cops shooting back at the Bank Robbers or Mobsters watch themselves, their partners and bystanders get killed. It affects their REAL lives.

    I think that watching something on screen over and over again makes you numb to it…. But not in the good “I never want this to happen ever again” numbing. I think it might make you numb in the “this isn’t real” sense.

    Just my humble opinion from my experience watching cops and playing half-life. 🙂

  21. The second I say that I don’t support the death penalty, some image comes on TV of the horror that McVeigh perpetrated and I want him dead. I don’t want him eating three meals a day at U.S. taxpayers expense, and getting visits from fellow “soldiers,” getting fan letters from lonely fat chicks in Butte, Montana… and selling his story so Tim Roth or Ed Norton or Gary Oldman can add another freak to their cinematic collection.

    Nope. I want the guy dead. And he is. And I can’t help but feel better. Now… how about Paul Bernardo?

  22. Kyle,

    Interesting you mentioned Bernardo.

    I was fervently against capital punishment until I heard the few details of his crimes that I was unable to avoid. They were overwhelming — I could think of nothing else for days. I wanted him dead and still want him dead; for me, there is no other possibility.

    I do not believe in “an eye for an eye” and objectivity is always my holy grail but I feel so strongly about Bernardo’s fate that I don’t dare dismiss it. It is a feeling that comes from so deep within my spirit that I can only quantify it as pure and indivisible. It is one that I have to trust (which is probably how McVeigh felt and probably how most Francs-Tireurs felt, alas).

    Because of Bernardo, I can no longer say I am against capital punishment and given the opportunity he would die by my hand.

  23. yada,
    It’s your choice to remain anonymous. However, you say that we are all anonymous unless we know eachother outside AOV. Most of us do, but many of us came to know eachother through media like this Reply board.

    Kirby, Sandy, Dave, Peter, ll coolbreeze, KBJ, Vince, etc. These are all people I have come to know (in varying degrees) through the web.

  24. Bernardo is rotting away in jail where he belongs. Sure he deserves the death penalty. He deserves to be turned inside out just like he’s done to his victims and the family of the victims. But he won’t get that. He’ll (if justice is proper) will die behind bars. There’s no glory in that. Doesn’t make for a great mini-series on TV because there’s no big bravado death scene of the bad guy at the end. Bernado who? Now if he gets out in a couple of years on ‘good behaviour’, well… I may have a differint opinion.

  25. I still live by the old “Two wrongs don’t make a right” rule, and that’s why I don’t believe in capital punishment. As I said earlier, killing someone just brings yourself down to his level. Lock him up and throw away the key.

    Bernado has to live with the fact that the majority of the population will hate him for the rest of his life, and I’m sure the harden criminals in prison don’t think too much of his actions either. Try to imagine living in a world for the next 60 years and never being considered anything less than a monster. Everything he’s learned to love in life is gone, and will never be back again.

    As for the Yada situation, I say let him stay anonymous. I know that I don’t respect his opinion, and I’m sure that alot of people here share my opinion. I think he’s a dipshit, and knowing his real name or email address isn’t going to change my opinion.

  26. I just saw a dead body.

    I was walking back to my office thru DT Vancouver, on the low part of East Hastings where the junkies and the winos come to die.

    There was an aboriginal girl, maybe 30, maybe 14, lying limp on the ground; I circled the block.

    When I came back by the grizzly scene there was an ambulance and two police cars — they are never far from the area — as I dropped my cigarette and reached the door of my office, I noticed them covering her over with a cheap hospital blanket. This hits me hard right now 10 floors above it. A million miles away. Makes me think of McVeigh.

    On McVeigh; well I think it is astounding that the “media” has not focussed more on the fact that he was an American war hero, trained to kill by the government he grew to loathe. It is surely not an easy thing to kill 168 people in one fell swoop, he must have learnt well, and while I was saddened the day of the blast (tho not really because if I remember correctly it was in April of 95 and I had a finance final the same day). I view it much the same way that Malcolm X viewed the killing of JFK; a case of the chickens coming home to roost.

    Now easily the most amusing thing of the entire episode is the supposed “loss of innocence” that America endured after the bombing.

    Innocence?

    For a country that routinely kills over things like oil (see: The Gulf War, in which McVeigh was decorated) and or political influence (see: Vietnam where US senator and possible 2004 presidential candidate Bob Kerrey has admitted to killing women and children). Innocence was lost a hundred years ago and the tears we shed for the victims of the bombing, people McVeigh referred to as “collateral damage” in a letter to the Buffalo News, are easier than crying for some beaten down area of Mexico, or Vietnam, or Colombia (or some aboriginal girl dead on the streets of my hometown).

    The term “collateral damage” by the way is a construct of the Vietnam War, meant to imply that in any military action, where a goal is to be achieved, one must accept a degree of human casualty. As McVeigh himself announced, “it’s the nature of the beast.” Indeed.

    The killing of McVeigh, ho-hum, a minor PR blip on a furious World Wide war that comes from one place. No wonder its citizens — its fucking soldiers no less — view the US government as the archetype of evil and cruelty. They should know best.

    I cry for the girl on the street. She at least deserves my sympathy, my time, and my patience.

  27. Well honestly, I’m confused. You came to know say, coolbreeze, through the msg board? So why couldn’t you come to know yada through the msg board? How is one any more anonymous than the other (coolbreeze is a better name)

    Is it just because I’ve never posted much before? Is this the greeting everyone gets when they first arrive?

  28. Yada, a consistent anonymous identity can lead to very meaningful interaction. I think some of us presumed that you are not a first-time poster with an unfamiliar name, but a regular who is dodging replies. Forgive us (if we are indeed wrong).

    If you have reasons for concealing your identity, that’s fine. However, if you are someone that we may know though whatever means, it’s nice to have that context (so we can better judge you!).

    As for coolbreeze, I witnessed the the infamous fainting with my own eyes!

  29. I am ripping this off The Onion:

    Everything Better Now In Oklahoma City

    OKLAHOMA CITY, OK– Timothy McVeigh’s death by lethal injection Monday has made everything perfect in Oklahoma City, his 168 victims’ loved ones describing themselves as feeling “100 percent better.” “I just know my baby girl is up there in heaven, smiling down on this execution, happy as can be,” said a beaming George Browne, whose 7-year-old daughter Brianna died in the 1995 federal-building blast. “Her death is avenged, and everything’s great.” Said Oklahoma City schoolteacher Sherrie Olsacher, 37, who was blinded in the bombing: “You can’t imagine how healing this is. My eyesight’s even returned.” Moments after McVeigh was pronounced dead, 168 white doves were seen soaring over the city, racing toward a suddenly cloudless horizon that beckoned the dawn of a glorious new day.

  30. Interesting article from the Onion, Rob. I wonder if it will inspire American children NOT to take guns to school with them anymore?

  31. No, They will just look for white doves next time they shoot their English teacher execution style (the new “in” way to kill a public servant)

  32. Hello; long time reader, first time poster 😉

    I was walking across the street for my daily 11:00am blueberry tea break, when I came upon a poster for a “special dramatic presentation” to be held Sunday, June 24, 2001 entitled: “The Execution of Timothy McVeigh”. The presentation is going to be held at the Benevolent Irish Society hall and is presented by the Island Celebration Church. What intrigued me the most was the catch phrase “A Devastating True Story That Will Grip Your Heart”.

    Can I ask the obvious? Why? I don’t mean to offend anyone who may be connected to both this presentation and to aov, but come on! What purpose will this serve? Surely not to educate us; we can get that from CNN…and it’s a bit late…what possible reason would the Island Celebration Church have to delve into the execution of this man? Admission is free, thankfully…it would say a great deal about the church if it accepted money for an event which is capitalizing on the sensationalism of this case. Any thoughts?

  33. As someone who new people that died in the act that McVeigh committed, his death is not a healing but an inconsideration. What suffering has he been put through? He had no remorse before, and he was allowed to die as a martyr as many have said here. This man took the lives of sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, yet he is allowed to fall asleep peacefully. I have heard it said, that the worst part of death row and being put to death is knowing you are going to die. But I believe that in this case this is not true. McVeigh walked to his death proud of what he did, and wanted to die to become the martyr that he now is.

    Let’s ask the question of why did the people have to die, to fulfill his plan?

    You ask why did he have to die, but what about them, the children, the parents the friends. A person that I worked with at the time was talking on the phone with a contact that she had become good friends with over the years in the building. They were sharing tales of their children, taking a minute to enjoy each others company, as they had done many times over the years, when the phone went suddenly quiet. Then not being able to get back through on the phone, figured it was a problem with the phone lines, only to later find out she was one of the 168 innocent dead, or as they have been called, “collateral damage”.

    Another question that should be asked – Would you want to be collateral damage? What about your child? What about your parent? What about your friend?

    Well now McVeigh is collateral damage!

    Jeff Coll stated we should be mad as hell that McVeigh was executed today. Why not be mad as hell because 168 family members, and friends are dead today! And executed, McVeigh was not treated with the torture and pain that many went through, the lucky being the ones that died instantly.

    I guess the whole point of this is stop asking “why McVeigh”, but “why 168 innocent women, men, and especially children!” Don’t martyr McVeigh, but martyr the ones that he punished for no real reason other than his own hatred.

  34. Nobody should have the right to take away someone’s life before his or her time—be it Timothy McVeigh or the United States government. The whole concept of capital punishment is absurd in that a government says that killing a person is wrong and then it turns around and kills a person. It doesn’t exactly set a good example.

    My statement, as Sean quoted in the previous post, was meant to show that as human beings we should not take it lightly when a person dies unnecessarily. Any person. Like the people that he killed, McVeigh died unnecessarily.

    People die unnecessarily every day, but the difference between McVeigh’s death and most other unnecessary deaths is that it could have been easily prevented. It was not the result of a mechanical error or a deviant mind—it was the result of a government that fails to see the incongruity in its own laws.

    Every execution represents a step backwards. That is what is so infuriating.

  35. Would you want to be collateral damage? What about your child? What about your parent? What about your friend

    That’s a tough question.

  36. i accidently stumbled across the video of the woman being shot in the forehead…i cant describe the feeling of discust.. i thought it was real. so i did a search on Yahoo for her dying words “Snuff films do not exist” and came accross this message board.. are you guys sure its fake?? im hoping so..

  37. I just saw the woman getting “shot” video for the first time. At first I was shocked and hit the net. There were so many people saying it was fake I started looking at more closely. Her performance is very convincing. I was sure that I wasn’t sure until my eye caught one thing that proves it to be a fake. Going frame by frame (clicking pause on the player a bunch of times) I noticed that there is a black mark on her head indicating the strike of the bullet, BUT the hammer on the weapon never fell! No round is fired so all the rest is SFX. Thank God its fake.

    Ice

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